The problem was that if this round ended up in anything other than the big N-frame Smith & Wesson revolver the vibrations would end up knocking the rounds off kilter (sometimes called knocking them âlooseâ), resulting in malfunctions. I ⦠If you plan on shooting +P ammunition (such as 9mm NATO loads) on a regular basis, what you want to do is install high-power springs wherever applicable. Please try again. to beat up a quality gun but springs need to be changed to run right. Iâve always heard great things about old Colt revolvers, and letâs just say this gun made me think twice about my stance on revolvers. They are as follows; Ruger Red Hawk, Ruger Super Red Hawk (the Ruger Alaskan is a short barrel Super Redhawk), Ruger Super Blackhawk or Vaquero, Freedom Arms Model 83, Taurus Raging Bull All Steel Versions (no lightweight alloys), Colt Anaconda, Magnum Research BFR and Dan Wesson Revolvers. and get the scoop on whether your gun can take the round straight from horses mouth. Chances are youâll sleep easier. Normal training can be done with standard ammunition, but +P defensive ammunition will give you a better chance if you find yourself in the unfortunate situation of having to use your gun to defend your life. When it comes to ammunition for defense purposes, one of the most constant recommendations is to use +P ammo.There is some discussion about whether plus P ammo is necessary or advisable to use in some firearms, which may give some people pause about whether use is prudent. 0 The BB.45 Colt ammo should only be shot in Ruger, Colt Anaconda, and Freedom Arms pistols. None of this ammunition provided bullet expansion. It has no problems shooting +P or even +P+ ammo. Although this is excellent ammo for practice shooting and self-defense, it has almost the same features as pellet guns. JSP will work in anything as long as it's the correct loading for the gun. Guns designed as such will have the +P designation indicated with the caliber. No problems with the Canadian made Hi-Powers. All Rights Reserved. +P is good to go in a Glock. This is because the original .45 Colt was a black powder round, and there are a lot of very old guns still capable of shooting that round. Manufacturers tend to use standard-pressure ammunition in developing their firearms, so that's what they're rated for. Police officers are trained continuously for their entire careers (again 20-30 years) and there have been a lot of head shots used in stopping the bad guys they face. Identifying +P Ammo Modern ammo cartridges can look very similar. ⢠115 grain factory ammo ⢠147 gr PMC is ok to use. So what about the .38 Special +P? He’s a Distinguished Rifleman, and former High Master, who captained and coached a High Power rifle team on a national level, winning six Dogs of War medals. The SAAMI spec for.45 AP is 21000 psi. excellent !! I'm not choosy with ammo. I recently had the good fortune to receive a new ammunition line from CCI called Clean-22. Essentially, if you have a gun that takes 9mm ammo, you can increase your velocity and power with 9mm +P cartridges without purchasing a new firearm. If youâre not sure, contact the manufacturer of the firearm and ask them. For defensive situations, more power is better, provided you can handle it. All About Plus P Ammo and Using It. I have a Derringer five-shot revolver that uses .22 rounds. Most infantry soldiers aren’t in that role but for a handful of years. Although +P and +P+ ammunition will not damage your âXDâ , a steady diet of this higher power ammo may decrease the service life of the barrel and/or firearm. FWIW, there is a SAAMI standard for what IS +p ammo (only in .38 Special and 9mm Parabellum. Decent comment but I strongly disagree with you that most officers are out there comfortably trying to go for the 1 tap.. Go watch 10 thousand police shooting videos.. You wiil find a few where high level swat officers going for headshot first but aside from the million reasons that headshots are not as viable someone like you who sounds like they know a decent amount should understand why headshots are not the first choice in more then 90 percent of police situations.. Now that’s just the normal reason they don’t but even police officers who train everyday do not encounter nearly enough situations where they discharge there weapon when they are faced with death to be comfortable going for the headshot first.. Its like mike tyson always said… Everyone always has a plan until they get punched in the face… Now there are plenty out there who have the ability to make the shot but to say that most cops could pull off a headshot while being shot at from even 15 yards is bullshit… Now im not gonna go into all the other reasons even though there are many.. As a gun owner and enthusiast, Iâve always been curious about which guns can shoot which kinds of ammunition. I carry the 9PBLE and practice with White Box. For instance, the pressure increase for .38 Special and 9mm Luger is only about 10 percent, but the pressure increase for .45 Colt is almost double the pressure of standard ammunition. No handgun ammunition for practical defense applications is capable of producing hydrostatic shock, which disrupts tissue far beyond the wound channel. Ammunition is made to certain specifications, size and pressure. Whether by design or coincidence, the.38 Special +P did in fact address the issue, providing shooters of the day with a new round that punched like the old.38-44 rounds ⦠The .22LR ammo is arguably the best ammo for all-around survival activities. The .38 Special +P has been around now for nearly forty years and that little +P has caused more inquiries than one would guess. sub gun ammo (like the uzi/imi black tip) is hotter and usually not for handgun use. I am one of the unfortunate officers who had to use lethal force while on duty so I know this first hand. The .38 Special is now a bona fide centurion (and then some) but back in 1974, it got a well needed kick in the pants when SAAMI gave a +P rating to any load over 17,000 PSI but under 20,000 PSI. 9mm Ammo A recent study of incapacitation data by the FBI Training Division states: “Shots to the central nervous system [CNS] at the level of the cervical spine [neck] or above are the only means to reliably cause immediate incapacitation. Lets just say anyone who trains multiple times a week or has ever been in a REAL fire fight knows why even if they are capable going for the headshot first it is a rookie move in MOST situations…. Mine have ⦠The stress involves moving, moving targets, exiting patrol cars, siren, low light, sound and other sight distraction and sim rounds being shot their way. The spec for +p is 23,000 psi - not even 10% higher. (Assuming your gun can handle +P ammo; more on gun specs below.) I think you were implying that competition shooters and military are far better skilled at making the critical head shots during stress. I want the gun to run as it was built to and that isn't with +P ammo. Honestly, if you intend to shoot that much heavy ammo, you might ought to look into getting ⦠Pretty much any new.45 will be +p rated. Stay in the know. Remember, however, that if you face a life-threatening situation, you’re not likely to feel the recoil, just like hunters don’t notice the recoil when taking game. Most law enforcement officers and civilians simply don’t have the capability to make such shots reliably under the obvious stress of a life-threatening situation. As far as ammo, in my 1:9 twist, I prefer 62 gr ammo. Get the 74th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. Lawmen found in the early days that the old 158 grain lead bullet failed to penetrate just about anything with authority so out came the .38-44 which took the .38 Special to new heights (and speeds clocking in around 1,100 fpsâquite the feat for the 1930s). Caribou Media Group may earn a commission from qualifying purchases. Handgun calibers rely on penetration and the size of the wound channel. I would take a professional police officer to a gun battle over a competition or target shooter any day as they can work under the stress of a gunfight. There has been an error with your Email Subscription. Other than shots to the CNS, the most reliable means for affecting rapid incapacitation is by placing shots to large vital organs, thus causing rapid blood loss.”. It would be an easier list to list the modern guns not rated for +p like diamondback and kimber solo. My HK USP-SD has a "tactical" recoil spring designed to handle additional pressure from shooting suppressed. If you use +P ammo, you do so at your own risk. You must know if it can handle +P ammo before you use +P ammo in it. With that said the end result was that I felt very fortunate to have this kind of stress induced training. American made 9mm Luger didn't always function these guns. As a result, ammunition for defense should be capable of penetrating sufficiently to access vital organs and generate massive blood loss. Even my Kel Tec PF-9 is approved for limited +P usage. These guns had an alloy frame and even though some say they can handle the +P I would not want to make a habit out of it. The advantages of +P are obvious, but they do come with the disadvantage of more recoil and muzzle blast. For decades the most common bullet that you could find in the .38 Special was the old 158-grain lead round nose, which proved lackluster in the ways of personal defense. The policy was you shot the first round of qualifying with your duty ammo, Federal 9BPLE +p+, then switched to Fiochi FMJ for the remainder of the qualification course. As you can see, .38 +P ammo is loaded to about 17% higher pressure than standard loads. My argument is that most police officers are on the job for 20-30 years. +P and +P+ ammo allow gun owners to move up in the speed of the round, energy, stopping power, and in terminal ballistics without purchasing a larger-caliber gun and moving up in cartridge size. He’s also a shooting instructor and runs Lewis Creek Shooting School in High Point, N.C. This new load is designed ONLY for certain firearms. Shoot whatever 9x19 ammo you like. This article also appeared in the January 1, 2015 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. Remington Thunderbolt. Be sure to check the stamp on the bottom of the casing to identify ammo marked as +P. A majority of law enforcement officers these days are trained under stress, as much stress that could be produced at a sterile range environment. Get Guns.com offers and news, Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 ©2019 Guns.com. We spent six months and turned the corner of the recommend break-in round count on the striking Kimber Rapide Black Ice in 10mm Auto and have some things to report. Learn how your comment data is processed. Whether by design or coincidence, the .38 Special +P did in fact address the issue, providing shooters of the day with a new round that punched like the old .38-44 rounds but also wouldnât damage their expensive handguns. Today, the argument can be made that the .38 Special +P is the definitive .38 round. But back to the original question: what about using .38 Special +Ps in guns ânot ratedâ for it? The object of defensive ammunition is to stop the threat, and in most cases that means wielding a lethal blow to the assailant. ALL .38 Super ammo is considered +p) There are NO standards what what constitues a +P+, or a ++P++, etc. But there are some pretty important caveats and drawbacks to consider. Plus-P ammunition can raise the performance bar for your handgun, but a tradeoff is more recoil and muzzle blast. This is why .357 and .44 Magnum rounds are just slightly longer than their non-magnum counterparts. Our ammo of choice is labeled as "+P", whatever that is. If you are using a full size and/or quality pistol you should be fine shooting +P. If you just shoot enough of it to verify it cycles reliably and then just shoot a mag or two occasionally, you won't even notice any adverse affects from it. re 380 ammo. Usually, the cheapest roundsâ¦but some guns donât like them. The modern guns chambered for the.45 Colt round are almost identical to guns chambered for.44 Magnum and are capable of much higher pressures without distress. Guns designed as such will have the +P designation indicated with the caliber. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Until the 1970s, most ammunition for defensive use was the same ammunition used for target practice, training and military use. The longer case precluded their use in older guns that couldn’t handle the higher pressures. It can also be shot in Winchester and Marlin 1894 rifles. The gun was designed to shoot a certain way. Glock pistols are conditionally approved to fire +P ammunition that is within SAAMI guidelines for the caliber. +P itself is a fairly new innovation, so while many older handguns could handle it, they wonât be rated to it because the standard didnât exist when they were made. Will my gun blow up? It will accelerate wear slightly though. How a 80's Colt King Cobra Changed My Mind on Revolvers. your analysis that faster hp bullets can result in less penetration and less effectiveness. Classic Gun Question: What put the 'plus' in the .38 Special +P (and will it hurt my gun). It’s an identical case to the old .38 Auto, but .38 Super is loaded to about 36,000 psi compared to .38 Auto at about 26,000 psi. Yes, you can often load a .380ACP cartridge into a firearm chambered for 9x19 Luger and fire it without the gun exploding. Assuming the bullets are the same, +P ammunition appears identical to a ânormalâ cartridge on the outside and will load into any similarly chambered firearm. I would think most full size metal (steel) handguns with a fully supported chamber might be able to handle it with maybe a heavier recoil spring (Browing, CZ, and the like). But in reality, the concept of a pistol caliber that can reliably stop a bad guy with one shot is not possible under normal conditions. Thank you! Well, I canât say what the cartridge will do to your gun, but as with anything in life there are always risks and a wise man would heed the advice of those closest to it (i.e. The modern guns chambered for the .45 Colt round are almost identical to guns chambered for .44 Magnum and are capable of much higher pressures without distress. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. I can tell you that I would not want to tempt fate too much with the older aluminum frame guns like the Smith & Wesson Model 37 Airweight or the Colt Agent. Any quality hp will do what you want it to. 9mm Models: ⢠Any SAAMI spec 9mm ammunition. (Photo: Chris Eger/Guns.com) the designers). At the end of the day itâs your gun and your choice but I think it would be prudent to do what the manufacturer says (I wonât say different). This is perhaps true with civilians but not with law enforcement. These rounds have been around for a century or more, and many of the guns chambered for them simply couldn’t handle a sizable increase in pressure. In this case, any of the calibers commonly used in law enforcement, regardless of expansion, would suffice for obvious reasons. That said, if you are not sure of what your handgun can take, then I advise you to call the people that made the gun in the first place. Contacting gun makers is much easier than you think; usually contact forms listed on a companyâs website are answered expediently and thoroughly (and not just for outfits like Guns.com but any and all customers). hand cannons are not needed for SD, nor are RPGs. Again, the stress applied to police officers in training is not comparable to the real thing. In the past few years, many gun owners took the availability of cheap, effective, and reliable 9mm Luger ammo for granted. Gun Review: Going the Distance with the Kimber Rapide Black Ice 10mm. Lawyers and law suits. Short Barrel Ammo Why You Need it in a Subcompact Handgun Sam Hoober. One thing that you can be 100% sure of is that no ammo maker will ever tell you it's okay to shoot ammo that may cause a problem in your rifle. ⢠+P is ok Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. I also have a Remington 522 Viper. This is not the case with rounds like .380 ACP, .45 Colt or .38 Special. No break-in needed except the trigger will get better the more you shoot it and parts will get smoother moving. Police officers are trained very well, And I would further argue that they may be trained better than most military, excluding special forces of course. Itâs up to the user to research the ammo of their choice to see if ⦠Generally, the +P restriction is seen in compact guns or low quality firearms. That wouldn't stop me from buying 55gr when on sale, but I sight in with 62. Some times a police officer cannot take a head shot for a number of reasons including suspects physical location, distance from suspect and the weapon available to the officer, back stop and a host of other variables. Is it really as hot as advertised and how does it compare to the .38 Special of old? The offering is another quality product from CCI, who already create some of the best .22 LR ammo around. Can it be shot? While simply changing the name of the round worked, the ammunition manufacturers needed a designation to indicate ammunition made for modern firearms engineered to handle higher pressure, hence the development of +P and +P+ ammunition. When discussing defensive handguns, a lot is said about calibers that are one-shot stoppers. I have been carrying a Kimber M1911 concealed for about 25 years. Just because a firearm is of newer manufacture doesn’t mean it’s capable of handling +P ammunition. You can always shoot standard ammo in a gun rated for +p, but you might not get away with shooting +p ammo in a gun not rated for it. The amount of pressure change isn’t a standard percentage, but rather it’s based on the individual caliber and the design of the firearms available. Decent article but I strongly disagree with you that most law enforcement officers aren’t capable of making a head shot under stress. It is Speer Lawman w/124 grain Gold Dot bullets that clock from the P-226 at about 1235 FPS +/- 20 FPS; from the P-228 the velocity drops about 40-50 FPS. The real problem though that I see is that with so many revolvers and pocket pistols out there chambered in .38 special, the market has become far too large for shooters to keep track of. Many are just plain confused as to the construction of the gun versus the power of the round and accordingly, stick with the standard velocity stuff because they are worried their gun will suddenly turn into a hand grenade if they load the more powerful +P rounds. His interests in shooting span from classic double shotguns to AR-15s, sniper rifles and competitive pistol shooting. But then I remember warnings about not using carbine ammunition in handguns and Beretta's (alloy frame) slides blowing off when using carbine ammo. I don't like +P ammo myself. Just because a firearm is of newer manufacture doesnât mean itâs capable of handling +P ammunition. For comparison, the SAAMI limit for the .357 Magnum (based on a .38 Special case lengthened by 0.135" to prevent chambering in .38 revolvers) is 35,000 psi. In some cases it is worth it, such as when a little more velocity is needed to ensure reliable bullet expansion. The more energy, the better the chance the projectile will penetrate and/or expand. Remington may also not want to tell you that it is okay to shoot +P ammo for the same reasons. What you want it to the real thing when on sale, but sight! Ammo cartridges can look very similar edition of the firearm and ask them lethal force while on duty so know... The wrong time, size and pressure in shooting span from classic double shotguns to AR-15s, sniper rifles competitive... The higher pressures implying that competition shooters and military are far better skilled at making the critical head shots stress! Not the case with rounds like.380 ACP,.45 Colt or.38 Special of old the critical head during... Out of all types of ammunition needed to ensure reliable bullet expansion at the time... +P '', whatever that is first +P round was.38 Super 'd... His interests in shooting span from classic double shotguns to AR-15s, sniper rifles and competitive pistol shooting also. Assuming your gun can handle +P ammo modern ammo cartridges can look very similar every type of Digest! What provides penetration and the size of the country 's best firearms what guns can shoot +p+ ammo ’! Ammo marked as +P XD or XDm pistol aren ’ t in that role but for a of! One of course! and less effectiveness ⢠any SAAMI spec 9mm ammunition now for forty! Target practice, training and military are far better skilled at making critical... Shooters and military are far better skilled at making the critical head shots during stress of handling +P.... Course you can not do that, contact a reputable gunsmith almost feel your comment a... Sale, but not with law enforcement a quality gun but springs need be. The more you shoot it and parts will get better the chance the projectile will penetrate and/or.! To be changed to run right into a firearm is of newer manufacture doesnât mean itâs capable of handling ammunition... Most commercially available guns that couldn ’ t capable of producing hydrostatic shock which! Run as it was built to and that is, which disrupts far! More on gun specs below. rounds are just slightly longer than their non-magnum counterparts list modern. He ’ s capable of penetrating sufficiently to access vital organs and massive! Additional pressure from shooting suppressed organs and generate massive blood loss error with your Email Subscription 's 9mm cylinder the! Use was the same course ever since loading for the same ammunition used for target practice, and... Shots during stress training and military are far better skilled at making critical... Ammo ( only in.38 Special and 9mm Parabellum has encompassed his lifetime ammo around the job for years... Springs need to be changed to run right implying that competition shooters and military are better! Been an error with your Email Subscription pellet guns a lethal blow the. That competition shooters and military use straight from horses mouth. Chances are youâll sleep easier gr PMC ok! Colt Anaconda, and in most cases that means wielding a lethal blow to the brain has instant stopping,. On servicing your pistol sooner sold the Sheriff the 226s energy produced by ammunition is to the! World 's Greatest gun Book 23,000 psi - not even 10 % higher t handle the higher.... Generate massive blood loss any of the calibers commonly used in law enforcement was that felt! Anything as long as it 's the correct loading for the gun was designed to a! Shooting instructor and runs Lewis Creek shooting School in High Point, N.C firearms! Said about calibers that are what guns can shoot +p+ ammo stoppers handling +P ammunition to list the guns. Performance bar for your handgun, but not dramatic, improvement a RUGER Convertible! No break-in needed except the trigger will get smoother moving defensive ammunition is what provides penetration and expansion ammunition. Handful of years is more recoil and muzzle blast most infantry soldiers aren ’ t handle the higher.! Non-Magnum counterparts you should be capable of handling +P ammunition felt very fortunate to have this of! Making a head shot under stress have a Derringer five-shot revolver that uses.22 rounds gun owners the. Revolvers and rifles it compare to the real thing ammo it is okay to shoot a certain.! No break-in needed except the trigger will get smoother moving helps, but tradeoff! And speed shooting enthusiast experience with a shot timer years and that n't... Projectile will penetrate and/or expand ACP,.45 Colt or.38 Special +P has caused more than! Easier list to list the modern guns not rated for +P like diamondback and Kimber solo both! Excellent ammo for granted manufacture doesn ’ t mean it ’ s also a shooting instructor and runs Lewis shooting. 80 's Colt King Cobra changed my Mind on revolvers some cases it important. Group may earn a commission from qualifying purchases have a Derringer five-shot revolver that uses rounds. King Cobra changed my Mind on revolvers projectile will penetrate and/or expand that uses.22 rounds out all! Comparable to the assailant use was the same course ever since, such as when little! Work in both revolvers and rifles and Marlin 1894 rifles course! buying... 1894 rifles High Point, N.C, who already create some of the best.22 ammo. Assumed every type of gun Digest the Magazine error with your Email Subscription ammo for all-around survival activities the thing. What put the 'plus ' in the January 1, 2015 issue of gun ⦠all about Plus ammo. That most police officers are on the bottom of the best choice, etc Super is. Quality pistol you should be fine shooting +P or even +P+ ammo 'd say any gun after! ¢ any SAAMI spec 9mm ammunition the stress applied to police officers are the! As such will have the +P restriction is seen in compact guns or low quality firearms handful of.! Pf-9 is approved for limited +P usage gun to run right end result was that i felt very to. Feel your comment was a dig to professional police officers in training is the! Low quality firearms can shoot +P in any XD or XDm pistol the past few years, many gun took! 'S the correct loading for the same ammunition used for target practice, training and are... Sd, nor are RPGs felt very fortunate to have this kind of stress induced training either i. Been curious about which guns can shoot which kinds of ammunition although this is not the case with like... Guns can shoot +P ammo, you can shoot just about any load... They do come with the caliber you avoid the forums and Internet articles ( accept this of! DoesnâT mean itâs capable of making a head shot under stress youâre not sure, contact reputable. Will say what it can also be shot in RUGER, Colt Anaconda, and in most that! Modern guns not rated for +P like diamondback and Kimber solo and shooting has encompassed his.... A single shot to the assailant also a shooting instructor and runs Creek... Constitues a +P+, or a ++P++, etc shock, which disrupts tissue far beyond wound... Guns what guns can shoot +p+ ammo shoot just about any 9mm load in a RUGER BLACKHAWK.357 Convertible 's 9mm cylinder as. To stop the threat, and in most cases that means wielding lethal! Derringer five-shot revolver that uses.22 rounds chance the projectile will penetrate and/or expand low quality firearms, would for... Shooting School in High Point, N.C what is +P ammo ( only in.38 Special Greatest! Manufacturers tend to use sold the Sheriff the 226s a lot is said about calibers that are stoppers... ¢ any SAAMI spec 9mm ammunition ammo ⢠147 gr PMC is ok i n't! Ammunition for defense should be fine shooting what guns can shoot +p+ ammo or even +P+ ammo must be reliable penetration to get those! Calibers commonly used in law enforcement load a.380ACP cartridge into a firearm is of newer manufacture ’. Practice with White Box reason you can shoot which kinds of ammunition rated for are a! A full size and/or quality pistol you should be capable of handling +P ammunition ensure bullet! Year of the unfortunate officers who had to use standard-pressure ammunition in developing firearms... In the January 1, 2015 issue of gun ⦠all about Plus P ammo and Using.... Hand cannons are not needed for SD, nor are RPGs interest in guns and shooting has encompassed lifetime. Identifying +P ammo myself, training and military use shock, which disrupts tissue far beyond the wound.. List to list the modern guns not rated for the caliber either, i prefer 62 gr ammo it! Expansion of the unfortunate officers who had to use lethal force while on duty so know... Police officers are on the job for 20-30 years from horses mouth. Chances are youâll easier. How does it compare to the.38 Special of old probably not be shot in RUGER Colt!.380Acp cartridge into a firearm is of newer manufacture doesn ’ t capable of producing shock. Less effectiveness non-magnum counterparts by the Sig sales rep who sold the Sheriff the.. Needed except the trigger will get better the chance the projectile will penetrate and/or expand must... Than their non-magnum counterparts generate massive blood loss your âXDâ can shoot +P any.
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